white…wait. – draw your own conclusion.

in case you didn’t know, White boys BEEN outselling Blacks (in Hip-Hop) since day one.

let’s go back to 1986 – a time that is known as the GOLDEN AGE of Hip-Hop.

this is where a White rap group began to outsell NOTABLE Black Hip-Hop / rap groups for about a solid DECADE.

some of the most MEMORABLE rap albums of ALL TIME were easily outsold by a White rap group.

for example: (they outsold)

it took a DOUBLE ALBUM (10 YEARS later) from two of Hip-Hop’s BEST (R.I.P.) just to TIE the White group in SALES.

in order to make a long story short, just know that the numbers tell the tale…the tale that repeats itself today, even locally. wait, ESPECIALLY locally.

Circa ’86 White groups BEEN dominated the Hip-Hop / rap charts – so let’s not play dumb and act like this is NOT the case – OR – try to JUSTIFY it or downplay it. Eminem took over from there (shortly after) and ran SO FAR ahead of Black artists / rappers (sales-wise) that there’s no logical explanation that doesn’t HEAVILY involve RACE.

it’s WRONG, and more Black people need to know and be clear on the facts – period.

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31 thoughts on “white…wait. – draw your own conclusion.

  1. the beastie boys were/are a [rock] band.
    rick rubin had so much success with ll cool j, t la rock, jazzy jay, and of course run dmc in the hip hop sound, that rubin decided to help them become a novelty/crossover act in hip hop.
    russell simmons agreed and they put the beasties on def jam.

    i don’t think [anyone] at the time felt that they were anything other than a novelty act.
    weird al yankovich sells millions too, (net worth of more than eight figures) but is he also a threat to the integrity of the rock and pop bands he makes fun of?

    i think it speaks to the talent of rick rubin that he was able to make slayer reign in blood the year after licensed to ill.

    even today, the beasties are widely seen as a pop crossover act, it would be very hard to find someone who would defend the beastie boys’ hip hop credibility.

    this is a strawman argument.
    the beastie boys don’t threaten the real hip hop culture at all.
    they exist side by side to it.

    • “i don’t think [anyone] at the time felt that they were anything other than a novelty act.”

      “NOVELTY” or not, the numbers tell a different tale. and that same tale is being REPEATED over and over again by ‘Hip-Hop’ ‘artists’ such as Macklemore and the like.

    • “even today, the beasties are widely seen as a pop crossover act, it would be very hard to find someone who would defend the beastie boys’ hip hop credibility.”

      they sold 16 MILLION as “HIP-HOP”.

      16 million CATEGORIZED as “HIP-HOP”.

      i’m not talking about CREDIBILITY.

      i’m talking about NUMBERS.

      and only SELLOUT negroes would DEFEND Macklemore’s Hip-Hop ‘credibility’.

      you CAN’T have credibility in something you don’t stay TRUE to the original TENETS of.

      • “…i’m not talking about CREDIBILITY.

        i’m talking about NUMBERS…”

        this is what gets me here at haywire.
        the conversations and debates move between these two different criteria.

        and the “wires” are getting crossed.
        no pun intended.

        numbers and credibility, as you have pointed out in the above quote, have [no] relation.

        get it?

        no relation.

        so when haywire mentions that em having bigger numbers affects the credibility of hip hop, a logical fail happens.

        numbers and credibility are two different things.

        no one in their right mind assigns the beastie boys, eminem, or yes even macklemore any real hip hop credibility. you know it. i know it. everyone knows it.

        that’s why it’s so difficult to see the posts about mack lately.
        he’s whiterap.

        let it go.

      • “so when haywire mentions that em having bigger numbers affects the credibility of hip hop, a logical fail happens.”

        numbers DO affect the credibility of Hip-Hop.

        you wanna know WHY?

        because BLACK Hip-Hop credibility is different from WHITE Hip-Hop credibility.

        and THAT is the point where things start to get twisted.

        i’m saying that WHITE PEOPLE give the Beastie Boys, Macklemore, and others HIP-HOP credibility (AS EVIDENCED BY RECORD SALES) while BLACK PEOPLE (as a whole / majority) DISAGREE.

        in other words, WHITE HIP-HOP CREDIBILITY ***hurts*** BLACK HIP-HOP CREDIBILITY…because WHITE PEOPLE (and their ‘coincidental’ spending power) makes Hip-Hop look like something that it is NOT to the WORLD…and THAT is BAD for Hip-Hop’s credibility.

        to make the point in fewer words: WHITE SPENDING POWER is BAD for Hip-Hop’s PERCEPTION by the GENERAL PUBLIC…and when THAT happens (White people buying up all the records of THEIR artists) Hip-Hop’s CREDIBILITY looks SUSPECT.

        HIP-HOP looks WEAK when you can just BUY the TOP SPOT…if that makes sense; which it should.

      • “no one in their right mind assigns the beastie boys, eminem, or yes even macklemore any real hip hop credibility. you know it. i know it. everyone knows it.”

        WRONG.

        WHITE PEOPLE DO.

        which raises the question…are White Hip-Hop fans IN THEIR RIGHT MIND???

        THAT is the fukcing QUESTION.

        and judging by their record PURCHASES…the EXTENT of those purchases…i’d have to say that they are NOT.

        NOT when you factor in Hip-Hop as BLACK CULTURE into the equation.

    • “this is a strawman argument.
      the beastie boys don’t threaten the real hip hop culture at all.”

      my post never said the word “THREATEN”.

      i’m just pointing out the numbers – and tying those past numbers to present numbers, and the puzzle pieces fit quite nicely.

    • “even today, the beasties are widely seen as a pop crossover act, it would be very hard to find someone who would defend the beastie boys’ hip hop credibility.”

      and the same exact premise applies to Macklemore.

      Macklemore is EQUALLY if not WORSE of a ‘Hip-Hop’ ‘NOVELTY’ in comparison.

      BOTH are bad, and sad excuses for ‘Hip-Hop’. a WARPED interpretation of the ART.

      it really is BULLSHIT when Whites can sell MILLIONS as MOCKERIES and NOVELTIES in Black art, but you never see the OPPOSITE.

  2. “weird al yankovich sells millions too”

    he’s not on the HIP-HOP charts.

    BIG difference. i’m not just talking about MILLIONS.

    i’m talking about MILLIONS (cause and effect) in Hip-Hop and Whiteness.

  3. russell simmons definitely affected hip hop as one of the pioneer black american entrepreneurial moguls, especially between 1984 and 1987.
    would you say he invalidates all that by putting out the beastie boys?

    just curious…

      • it’s not about bitterness.

        it’s about calling a spade a spade and sticking by it.

        THESE days everybody is so ‘politically correct’ that nothing gets DONE…CLEAR LINES never get drawn…

        ESPECIALLY when the topic relates to BLACK PEOPLE or Black INTERESTS.

        …and that’s partly how Black people got into this situation in the first place…by NOT quarantining and admonishing SELLOUTS and TRAITORS. that’s a big reason why Hip-Hop is so BULLSHIT today.

        but i don’t expect someone to see what i see IF they are on the outside looking in.

  4. “…WHITE PEOPLE give the Beastie Boys, Macklemore, and others HIP-HOP credibility (AS EVIDENCED BY RECORD SALES…”

    credibility and numbers are not the same thing.

    canlis has credibility.
    mcdonalds has numbers.

    nobody is saying that mcdonalds is better food than canlis.
    nobody.

    people don’t [vote]with their dollars for who/what they think is the best.
    they vote with their dollars for the cheapest, most easily digestible food/media they can find.

    do flat soggy gray burgers compete with the finest in food creation from master chefs?
    no. they don’t.

    nobody is saying that the beastie boys are more hip hop than rakim.
    nobody.

    • “people don’t [vote]with their dollars for who/what they think is the best.”

      THAT is not true.

      EMINEM is the TOP SELLING RAPPER EVER / OF ALL TIME – – – and what does that TRANSLATE TO?

      each record that White people PURCHASED was (is) basically a VOTE for ‘BEST RAPPER OF ALL TIME’.

      C’MON, man…the numbers are THERE.

      the PROOF is there.

      this isn’t even debatable.

    • “nobody is saying that the beastie boys are more hip hop than rakim.”

      it ain’t about WHO is MORE HIP-HOP.

      it’s about the RECORD SALES saying who is MORE HIP-HOP.

      you can TRY to SEPARATE the two – – – but in this CONTEXT, it’s illogical to try.

  5. …WHITE FANS with so much DISCRETIONARY MONEY TO SPEND are RUINING HIP-HOP due to the fact that they are buying so much BULLSHIT that is CONTRARY to the original tenets of Hip-Hop.

    they are basically FINANCING the DEMISE of Hip-Hop…partly ON PURPOSE, too.

    TOO MUCH MONEY and too little RESPECT.

  6. WHITE HIP HOP FANS and the ‘artists’ that they support / sponsor do more DAMAGE than GOOD for Hip-Hop.

    EMINEM being the best selling rapper is a SOLID example.

    BEASTIE BOYS outselling SEVERAL classic AND timeless black artists / albums is another SOLID example.

    THIS SHIT AIN’T EVEN DEBATABLE.

  7. so mcdonald’s is the best food of all time?

    lol

    sales do not equal credibility.
    they are two different qualities.

    “…i’m not talking about CREDIBILITY.

    i’m talking about NUMBERS…”

    two. different. things.

    • credibility and numbers become INTERTWINED when SALES and RACE become intertwined.

      NORMALLY credibility and numbers are two different things…

      but these days with White rappers OUTSELLING Black ones, the issue becomes a complex one…with concepts AS WE USED TO KNOW THEM petrified.

      the game is twisted on SO MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS that it’s spilling out into other shit; cross-contaminating simple rules and concepts.

    • “sales do not equal credibility.”

      they do when you are WHITE.

      they do NOT when you are BLACK.

      i’m pulling the RACE CARD on “sales do not equal credibility” – – – because there is a whole LEGION of White people out there that would argue OTHERWISE. – – – and they got the MONEY to back that BULLSHIT up . . . as evidenced and REPEATEDLY pointed out . . .

    • “em outsold afrika bam, herc, and flash.
      does he have more credibility than all three put together?”

      YES.

      in the AVERAGE WHITE FAN’S MIND…TOTALLY yes.

      • you’re right.

        BUT.

        the OLDER FANS aren’t the one’s that this game is geared to and marketed towards.

        i believe that YOUNGER White Hip-Hop fans have more ‘worth’ than OLDER White Hip-Hop fans…

        the younger White Hip-Hop fans dictate the demand, and the INDUSTRY responds and gives them what they want.

        older Hip-Hop fans (both Black AND White) [but ESPECIALLY Black] are afterthoughts; marketing-wise / industry-wise.

  8. lemme rephrase what i’m trying to say.

    i believe that WHITE PEOPLE and BLACK PEOPLE see HIP-HOP CREDIBILITY in two different lights.

    the AVERAGE WHITE HIP-HOP fan and the AVERAGE BLACK HIP-HOP fan live in two different worlds….AND SEE the world in two different perspectives.

    therefore rendering CREDIBILITY in the context of HIP-HOP…DIFFERENT…

    i think that White people use the numbers as a CRUTCH for Hip-Hop credibility – – – just to give THEIR GUYS (Macklemore, Eminem, Beastie Boys, etc.) an honorable mention in the SAME SENTENCE as BLACK Hip-Hop greats.

    in other words…

    ALL WHITE RAPPERS REALLY HAVE IN CONTRAST TO BLACK RAPPERS is SALES. SALES are the ONLY thing that enables White rappers to be RELEVANT in damn near all cases.

    that’s IT.

    99.9% of the time.

    • “…i think that White people use the numbers as a CRUTCH for Hip-Hop credibility – – – just to give THEIR GUYS (Macklemore, Eminem, Beastie Boys, etc.) an honorable mention in the SAME SENTENCE as BLACK Hip-Hop greats…”

      totally agree, but it’s the responsibility of the og fans among us to educate about the founding decades of hip hop.

      …which is a story of black culture.

      • “it’s the responsibility of the og fans among us to educate about the founding decades of hip hop.

        …which is a story of black culture.”

        NOW WE’RE TALKING.

        Black og fans AND Black artists are EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE (if not more so) in this Hip-Hop debacle as the White machine, fans, and artists.

        the story of Black music culture is quite sad and can be easily summarized in three-ish terms:

        create / originate, sell-out, & neglect / squander.

  9. and that might sound crazy, but it is what it is.

    – – – summary point – – –

    White artists / rappers (or White artists doing ‘BLACK’ music) IN GENERAL are OVER-RATED…and use their SALES as CREDIBILITY.

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